Mana Games

[polakis]

I think the game speed is a bit quick. You sould lower the ball speed. I think its more realistic with a bit lower ball speed

[knich]

We have been discussing that in the XKT discord. It is fast compared with IRL. To reduce speed you would need global attribute adjustments. But if that was an option to globally change (think NBA 2k) in the game, the speed of the ball in the videos in the discord look fantastic.

[manutoo]

According to this website http://on-the-t.com/2016/11/26/aoleader ... and-speed/ , the median forehand speed for Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal, and Grigor Dimitrov is 127km/h (= 79mph) ; I didn't do this stat for TE4, but I'm relatively confident that the FH median speed is significantly below 127km/h, and might be even under 120km/h ( = 75mph).

If you find other similar stats, I'd be very interested to see them.

[knich]

Manu...this data (link below) is a little older but I think it still reflects much lower speeds on FH and BH than are in the game. Keep in mind these are average speeds. What I am seeing from CPU is max effort all the time, except on serve. The serve speeds by male CPUs don't even reach women average speeds IRL.
Also..the CPU second serve is woeful. I can easily hit every time a 140-150km (90+mph) return against most CPUs unless they have good kick serve. This often results in a winner or easy second shot winner.

I think more than FH the BH is OP. As noted, most men and women hit BH about same speed, but the CPU BH is too strong to start and then max effort.

Hope this helps.

https://professionalshq.com/how-fast-do ... -the-ball/

[manutoo]

knich,
as I stated in this other topic topic15-34770.php : to do a comparison between real life & the game, you need the median speed stat instead of the average speed which is too dependent on the slice & acceleration speeds & rates.

ie: unfortunately, average speeds are mostly useless. The average speed of the topspin strikes (ie: not including drop shots & slices) would start to be slightly more useful, but without separation between accelerations & normal strikes, it'd still be not much usable...

Thus said, Wawrinka's Average Forehand Speed is 81mph = 130km/h. It's quite possible that it's already noticeably above the average speed when playing with the Realistic Mode.

The ones at 74mph = 119km/h might be quite close to the game. But again, it's not a good point of comparison anyway, as it'll heavily depend on how often the player uses the acceleration...

[Mahmut]

But what about backhand median speeds? what are they based on? About average FH, yes it depends on how often player uses acceleration but that includes defensive shots aswell. Is there stat that you used for BH normal strike speed?

This is another topic but i think backhand is OP in the game or game is favouring to backhand for 2 reasons.

1. I don't believe every anim is same for gameplay. I do think some anims are giving certain advantages. Specially backhand ones. Some of them are so quick you easily feel the difference even if the speed is low. About quick anims there is also no downside for them. Hence some players even trying to hit more acceleration shots on BH than FH. It is about modders.

2. I think BH speed is high specially if we compare to FH which is below standarts as i said and BH the opposite.

First reason is major issue for online play.

[Brad1981]

I think the game speed is a bit quick. You sould lower the ball speed. I think its more realistic with a bit lower ball speed

Yes, I have thought this too. It seems to be just the acceleration shot that can get too fast (Though the Panzer acceleration trait slows it down that it helps a little bit).

[manutoo]

Mahmut,
0) I tuned the FH & BH normal strike speed to match more or less the common speed of a neutral rally and get a decent global dynamic for the gameplay. For the acceleration speed, I used the link above for the FH and this one for the BH : http://on-the-t.com/2016/10/22/aoleader ... and-speed/ .

1) Anims have 0 incidences on the strike physics

2) See the other speed topic

[Mahmut]

1) I was talking about quicker ones takes more time than opponent. That makes more pressure and sending to ball quicker to the opponent so you need to react quicker. It's like early ball hit for quicker BH anims. It's visible some anims are so quick reacting is difficult to those. Don't think they have other any impacts.

[manutoo]

Mahmut,
there's nothing "quicker" coming from the anims.
Maybe it's a visual illusion that perturbates your perception of the ball.

[Mystery]

1. I don't believe every anim is same for gameplay. I do think some anims are giving certain advantages. Specially backhand ones. Some of them are so quick you easily feel the difference even if the speed is low. About quick anims there is also no downside for them. Hence some players even trying to hit more acceleration shots on BH than FH. It is about modders.

Animations do indeed impact the amount of preparation time needed for each shot. But, more importantly, this has to do with your own game style. I wouldn't say some have advantages in the sense that these advantages may only apply to you based on your game style.

[manutoo]

Mystery,
no, the animation does not impact the preparation time ; the Aiming Zone size reduction depends on the time you have pressed a strike button, the animation doesn't influence that or any other gameplay mechanism ; the animation is purely a visual change. (except on serve)

[Mystery]

Mystery,
no, the animation does not impact the preparation time ; the Aiming Zone size reduction depends on the time you have pressed a strike button, the animation doesn't influence that or any other gameplay mechanism ; the animation is purely a visual change. (except on serve)

Well you responded from a technical perspective, which I am not going to oppose that. But for players, the visual aspect of the racket swing motion makes a difference in how long / early they press the button to prep the shot. From there, they determine which animations suit best for them. For example, I prefer an animation with fast racket swing. When preparing a shot well, you are more likely to hit the sweet spot or accelerate on shoulder height. At least that's what I observed.

[Mahmut]

Animations do indeed impact the amount of preparation time needed for each shot. But, more importantly, this has to do with your own game style. I wouldn't say some have advantages in the sense that these advantages may only apply to you based on your game style.

Thanks for pointing this out. Maybe there is no advantage but i feel it's so obvious visually some anims are quicker for preparing isn't it?(Could be like this in real life too) Didn't understand fully what you mean in last statement. Isn't this give advantages to players who wants to be agressive? The thing is i don't feel any negativity on this I think some anims prepare early(prep time is less) and reach same speeds, and no disadvantage for anything like reaching balls or hitting from angles. They only have advantages atleast visually.

Just compare #3rd Anim on 2 handed backhand to any slower(longer preparation) visually looking BH anim?

[manutoo]

Mystery,
I checked carefully and actually the long preparation animations had a tiny advantage because it could make your player start to run faster (something like a 5cm bonus during the 1st couple meters).

With yesterday's update, it shouldn't happen anymore.

After, there is still the visual advantage to get a better idea to time your left/right aiming.